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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 19:52:45 GMT 10
Until Putin dies? Mate, Russia has elections you know. Come on, he's practically a dictator... there's no way he's going to get voted out, not when Opposition leaders are bloody assassinated. Mate, there is no democracy in Russia, and saying otherwise would be pure denial It's not a dictatorship, he was voted in by the people. He's only had two terms as president so far also. In fact, remember Dmitri Medvedev? Democracy in Russia exists, but it's just every party but Putin's sucks. |
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Post by BluesyThug on Dec 20, 2016 20:58:01 GMT 10
Come on, he's practically a dictator... there's no way he's going to get voted out, not when Opposition leaders are bloody assassinated. Mate, there is no democracy in Russia, and saying otherwise would be pure denial It's not a dictatorship, he was voted in by the people. He's only had two terms as president so far also. In fact, remember Dmitri Medvedev? Democracy in Russia exists, but it's just every party but Putin's sucks. Read this, and do NOT dismiss it as "western propaganda" or bollocks like that |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 21:12:13 GMT 10
It's not "western propaganda", it's straight up bs, just reading the title. Everytime Russia has a charismatic leader who isn't afraid to stand up to the west I feel they'll always say crap like "Omg omg omg russia returning to soviet roots???". Also I don't really feel like reading. |
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Post by BluesyThug on Dec 20, 2016 21:31:23 GMT 10
It's not "western propaganda", it's straight up bs, just reading the title. Everytime Russia has a charismatic leader who isn't afraid to stand up to the west I feel they'll always say crap like "Omg omg omg russia returning to soviet roots???". Also I don't really feel like reading. Don't be lazy.... you read every time someone says something on this forum, it's no different. And there we go - you're dismissing an article as "bs" without even reading it or considering the evidence inside it which supports the point of view laid out in the article |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 21:32:57 GMT 10
It's not "western propaganda", it's straight up bs, just reading the title. Everytime Russia has a charismatic leader who isn't afraid to stand up to the west I feel they'll always say crap like "Omg omg omg russia returning to soviet roots???". Also I don't really feel like reading. Don't be lazy.... you read every time someone says something on this forum, it's no different. And there we go - you're dismissing an article as "bs" without even reading it or considering the evidence inside it which supports the point of view laid out in the article Look at my response to Kelan in the other thread. Because usually when someone says something on the forum it's short. And if it's long I only read it because you guys are my friends and I don't want to dismiss your opinions/music tastes/thoughts. Also I think the concept of "dictatorship" has turned into a very loose meaning. I feel like they would call Roosevelt a dictator too. |
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Post by BluesyThug on Dec 20, 2016 22:43:51 GMT 10
Don't be lazy.... you read every time someone says something on this forum, it's no different. And there we go - you're dismissing an article as "bs" without even reading it or considering the evidence inside it which supports the point of view laid out in the article Look at my response to Kelan in the other thread. Because usually when someone says something on the forum it's short. And if it's long I only read it because you guys are my friends and I don't want to dismiss your opinions/music tastes/thoughts. Also I think the concept of "dictatorship" has turned into a very loose meaning. I feel like they would call Roosevelt a dictator too. Neither Roosevelt was corrupt, and each respected their opponents & didn't muffle their Opposition |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 22:59:33 GMT 10
Look at my response to Kelan in the other thread. Because usually when someone says something on the forum it's short. And if it's long I only read it because you guys are my friends and I don't want to dismiss your opinions/music tastes/thoughts. Also I think the concept of "dictatorship" has turned into a very loose meaning. I feel like they would call Roosevelt a dictator too. Neither Roosevelt was corrupt, and each respected their opponents & didn't muffle their Opposition Actually I think Putin has a rather good relationship with Zyuganov (Communist Party) and Zhirinovsky (Liberal Democrats). I'm pretty sure he doesn't like Just Russia or Yabloko though. Really?? You know some of the most popular Russians have been criticizing Putin on numerous occassions? In fact there have been numerous protests against him by major parties including PARNAS. Dmitriy Ivanov, one of the most popular Russian videobloggers is an active voice against Putin. I don't see these opposition leaders being "muffled". Corruption, I will admit, Putin's government is corrupt to the bone but that's not entirely the fault of Putin is it? |
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Post by BluesyThug on Dec 20, 2016 23:33:59 GMT 10
Neither Roosevelt was corrupt, and each respected their opponents & didn't muffle their Opposition Corruption, I will admit, Putin's government is corrupt to the bone but that's not entirely the fault of Putin is it? If Putin doesn't do anything about that corruption himself - as he hasn't - then that doesn't exactly make him any better |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 23:52:37 GMT 10
Corruption, I will admit, Putin's government is corrupt to the bone but that's not entirely the fault of Putin is it? If Putin doesn't do anything about that corruption himself - as he hasn't - then that doesn't exactly make him any better What exactly do you think he should do? Fire all the officials? You do realize these officials, regardless of being fired, still have so much power right? They can end Putin's political career. It's the people in the Duma (senate) that are the problem. All of them are old Russian men who do nothing but sit around and pass dumb resolutions trying to ban YouTube and all. I have no idea why Putin isn't doing anything, maybe because he's like Holt and he's the "Big Tent" guy, but the Duma should consider some serious fkn reforms in their members. Agreed on that point. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 23:57:23 GMT 10
It's not "western propaganda", it's straight up bs, just reading the title. Everytime Russia has a charismatic leader who isn't afraid to stand up to the west I feel they'll always say crap like "Omg omg omg russia returning to soviet roots???". Also I don't really feel like reading. Stand up to the west? He's been bombing the east. Pretty sure the east and the west are different. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:04:21 GMT 10
It's not "western propaganda", it's straight up bs, just reading the title. Everytime Russia has a charismatic leader who isn't afraid to stand up to the west I feel they'll always say crap like "Omg omg omg russia returning to soviet roots???". Also I don't really feel like reading. Stand up to the west? He's been bombing the east. Pretty sure the east and the west are different. The west is also bombing the east, it's like a proxy war, it's not like he's going to bomb Washington directly. I know, I don't support wars, but if the West starts them then someone's going to have to stop them from blasting everything to smithereens. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:06:21 GMT 10
Stand up to the west? He's been bombing the east. Pretty sure the east and the west are different. The west is also bombing the east, it's like a proxy war, it's not like he's going to bomb Washington directly. I know, I don't support wars, but if the West starts them then someone's going to have to stop them from blasting everything to smithereens. Except Russian isn't stopping the west. They're just imitating them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:11:52 GMT 10
The west is also bombing the east, it's like a proxy war, it's not like he's going to bomb Washington directly. I know, I don't support wars, but if the West starts them then someone's going to have to stop them from blasting everything to smithereens. Except Russian isn't stopping the west. They're just imitating them. Sugget you read the response I put to BluesyThug, they're not imitating the west, they're showing their power first of all, against the West claiming that Russia is a threat and containing Russia through sancations for no reason, and secondly they're essentially cleaning up the mess that the West has made. If Russia pulled out of the Middle East you think the US would stop bombing and peace would come? No, mate, it's only because Russia is there they're at a state of "impasse". If the west pulls out, Russia should pull out as well. But until then Russia is the only factor that's stopping American imperalism right now. Maybe China too but militeristically they're not involved. I am against wars, that's why I'm for Russia. They're not starting a war, they're preventing it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:13:45 GMT 10
Except Russian isn't stopping the west. They're just imitating them. Sugget you read the response I put to BluesyThug, they're not imitating the west, they're showing their power first of all, against the West claiming that Russia is a threat and containing Russia through sancations for no reason, and secondly they're essentially cleaning up the mess that the West has made. If Russia pulled out of the Middle East you think the US would stop bombing and peace would come? No, mate, it's only because Russia is there they're at a state of "impasse". If the west pulls out, Russia should pull out as well. But until then Russia is the only factor that's stopping American imperalism right now. Maybe China too but militeristically they're not involved. I am against wars, that's why I'm for Russia. They're not starting a war, they're preventing it. So according to you bombing the shit out of innocent people is perfectly fine as long as other countries aren't doing the same thing? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:18:04 GMT 10
Sugget you read the response I put to Rei, they're not imitating the west, they're showing their power first of all, against the West claiming that Russia is a threat and containing Russia through sancations for no reason, and secondly they're essentially cleaning up the mess that the West has made. If Russia pulled out of the Middle East you think the US would stop bombing and peace would come? No, mate, it's only because Russia is there they're at a state of "impasse". If the west pulls out, Russia should pull out as well. But until then Russia is the only factor that's stopping American imperalism right now. Maybe China too but militeristically they're not involved. I am against wars, that's why I'm for Russia. They're not starting a war, they're preventing it. So according to you bombing the shit out of innocent people is perfectly fine as long as other countries aren't doing the same thing? That seems to be the general atmosphere of the United States. Look, Russia has never intented for the bombing of innocent people, but as Putin mentioned it's just "a sad reality of war". There's nothing more to it. Should it stop? Yes, but it can only stop if the United States stops first. Russia's main goal is protecting their interests, and with the United States dominating the Middle East and bombing people that's not possible. They needed to intervene and put a stop to it. Yes, they also bombed people but that's called geopolitics. Sad things happen. Nobody likes it, but it happens. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 1:19:41 GMT 10
So according to you bombing the shit out of innocent people is perfectly fine as long as other countries aren't doing the same thing? That seems to be the general atmosphere of the United States. Look, Russia has never intented for the bombing of innocent people, but as Putin mentioned it's just "a sad reality of war". There's nothing more to it. Should it stop? Yes, but it can only stop if the United States stops first. Russia's main goal is protecting their interests, and with the United States dominating the Middle East and bombing people that's not possible. They needed to intervene and put a stop to it. Yes, they also bombed people but that's called geopolitics. Sad things happen. Nobody likes it, but it happens. Intervening the the USA bombing countries is not bombing more countries, it is organising disputes with the USA. You can't stop the USA from bombing by bombing yourself. As for innocent people dying being a sad fact of war, I agree. Yet this is so misguided on Putin's part. He isn't bombing terrorist organisations in these countries with small bombs, risking the deaths of some innocent by-standards for the greater good of saving more lives, but is instead bombing entire countries with humongousbombs. Not only does that kill more people but it creates an anger and urgency to retaliate from terrorists. It does more bad than it does good and may likely start another war all together. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:10:55 GMT 10
That seems to be the general atmosphere of the United States. Look, Russia has never intented for the bombing of innocent people, but as Putin mentioned it's just "a sad reality of war". There's nothing more to it. Should it stop? Yes, but it can only stop if the United States stops first. Russia's main goal is protecting their interests, and with the United States dominating the Middle East and bombing people that's not possible. They needed to intervene and put a stop to it. Yes, they also bombed people but that's called geopolitics. Sad things happen. Nobody likes it, but it happens. Intervening the the USA bombing countries is not bombing more countries, it is organising disputes with the USA. You can't stop the USA from bombing by bombing yourself. As for innocent people dying being a sad fact of war, I agree. Yet this is so misguided on Putin's part. He isn't bombing terrorist organisations in these countries with small bombs, risking the deaths of some innocent by-standards for the greater good of saving more lives, but is instead bombing entire countries with humongousbombs. Not only does that kill more people but it creates an anger and urgency to retaliate from terrorists. It does more bad than it does good and may likely start another war all together. The USA refuses to listen to diplomatic solutions, and Russia is essentially trying to prevent a war in the middle east which would happen if they just allowed the USA to bomb anyone they wanted. Somebody needs to be a stopping factor for them. I'll agree too that Putin shouldn't be carpetbombing the Middle East, again, i think both countries should just leave the Middle East alone, but until one of them decides to pull out the other isn't going to stop. And let's be honest, if Russia draws out, do you think the US will suddenly stop interfereing in other countries? Nope. Remember how NATO bombed Belgrade, the US and their buddies aren't going to stop. Russia shouldn't be bombing so much, of course, but a small amount of aggression is needed to stop the US. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:24:57 GMT 10
Intervening the the USA bombing countries is not bombing more countries, it is organising disputes with the USA. You can't stop the USA from bombing by bombing yourself. As for innocent people dying being a sad fact of war, I agree. Yet this is so misguided on Putin's part. He isn't bombing terrorist organisations in these countries with small bombs, risking the deaths of some innocent by-standards for the greater good of saving more lives, but is instead bombing entire countries with humongousbombs. Not only does that kill more people but it creates an anger and urgency to retaliate from terrorists. It does more bad than it does good and may likely start another war all together. The USA refuses to listen to diplomatic solutions, and Russia is essentially trying to prevent a war in the middle east which would happen if they just allowed the USA to bomb anyone they wanted. Somebody needs to be a stopping factor for them. I'll agree too that Putin shouldn't be carpetbombing the Middle East, again, i think both countries should just leave the Middle East alone, but until one of them decides to pull out the other isn't going to stop. And let's be honest, if Russia draws out, do you think the US will suddenly stop interfereing in other countries? Nope. Remember how NATO bombed Belgrade, the US and their buddies aren't going to stop. Russia shouldn't be bombing so much, of course, but a small amount of aggression is needed to stop the US. Of course the US won't stop if Russia stops. However Russia's constant bombing of countries isn't going to make the US stop either. One country bombing people is better than two countries bombing people. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:25:24 GMT 10
The USA refuses to listen to diplomatic solutions, and Russia is essentially trying to prevent a war in the middle east which would happen if they just allowed the USA to bomb anyone they wanted. Somebody needs to be a stopping factor for them. I'll agree too that Putin shouldn't be carpetbombing the Middle East, again, i think both countries should just leave the Middle East alone, but until one of them decides to pull out the other isn't going to stop. And let's be honest, if Russia draws out, do you think the US will suddenly stop interfereing in other countries? Nope. Remember how NATO bombed Belgrade, the US and their buddies aren't going to stop. Russia shouldn't be bombing so much, of course, but a small amount of aggression is needed to stop the US. Of course the US won't stop if Russia stops. However Russia's constant bombing of countries isn't going to make the US stop either. One country bombing people is better than two countries bombing people. How do you suggest they resolve this conflict? Diplomatic methods have already been tried. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 14:08:48 GMT 10
Of course the US won't stop if Russia stops. However Russia's constant bombing of countries isn't going to make the US stop either. One country bombing people is better than two countries bombing people. How do you suggest they resolve this conflict? Diplomatic methods have already been tried. They don't resolve, the conflict, they stay out of it. That's my advice. If Russia can't stop America from bombing countries than they should just stay out of it. If they bomb countries themselves they are just bringing themselves down to the same level. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 14:11:00 GMT 10
How do you suggest they resolve this conflict? Diplomatic methods have already been tried. They don't resolve, the conflict, they stay out of it. That's my advice. If Russia can't stop America from bombing countries than they should just stay out of it. If they bomb countries themselves they are just bringing themselves down to the same level. Fair point, but that's gonna bring up a whole lot more of drama internationally/inside Russia. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 14:36:27 GMT 10
They don't resolve, the conflict, they stay out of it. That's my advice. If Russia can't stop America from bombing countries than they should just stay out of it. If they bomb countries themselves they are just bringing themselves down to the same level. Fair point, but that's gonna bring up a whole lot more of drama internationally/inside Russia Explain why |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 18:26:35 GMT 10
Fair point, but that's gonna bring up a whole lot more of drama internationally/inside Russia. Explain why Your response is empty lol |
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Post by BluesyThug on Dec 21, 2016 19:46:52 GMT 10
Your response is empty lol Just fixed it |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 20:15:47 GMT 10
Fair point, but that's gonna bring up a whole lot more of drama internationally/inside Russia Explain why The United States bombing more in the Middle East/ Russians will view that as a failure to stop the west by the Putin administration |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 23:39:09 GMT 10
The United States bombing more in the Middle East/ Russians will view that as a failure to stop the west by the Putin administration So failing to intervene is so much worse than bombing innocent people? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 23:52:56 GMT 10
The United States bombing more in the Middle East/ Russians will view that as a failure to stop the west by the Putin administration So failing to intervene is so much worse than bombing innocent people? To the selfish mind of politicians, yes. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 23:54:42 GMT 10
So failing to intervene is so much worse than bombing innocent people? To the selfish mind of politicians, yes. Doesn't justify it i'm afraid. Anyways i'm locking what was originally a welcome thread as we've pretty much gone way too political here. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 23:58:16 GMT 10
To the selfish mind of politicians, yes. Doesn't justify it i'm afraid. Anyways i'm locking what was originally a welcome thread as we've pretty much gone way too political here. Also to the people who are nationalistic (which is generally describing most Russians). And yea, fair point. I have no idea how we got here. |
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Post by meddle on Dec 22, 2016 1:00:02 GMT 10
I find the United States foreign policy disgraceful
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Currently on the radio: "The Unforgiven"